TSK discussion | Beguilement, ch 12-19

[shimotsuki]

This is the final discussion post for Beguilement. The focus here is on chapters 12-19, but the whole book is fair game.

Summary

Chapter 12: Fawn and Dag have a few more days at the hotel in Glassforge to explore their relationship, but eventually they set out for West Blue. Fireflies are persuaded. They stop in Lumpton Market the night before arriving, and thieves steal Fawn's bedroll -- which has the primed sharing knife in it as well as the shards of Kauneo's. Dag catches the thieves, but they break his right arm, so no he has no working hand.

Chapter 13: Dag and Fawn arrive at the Bluefield farm, and Dag starts to understand where Fawn has come from, and why she wants to leave. He also begins to hatch a plan.

Chapter 14: Sunny Sawman comes to see Fawn for himself, and see what she's telling people. Dag, um, escorts him out abruptly. Fawn has a heart-to-heart talk with Nattie. Dag then has a useful talk with Fawn's mother, Tril. Over dinner, Dag's age is finally pinned down -- and he announces that he would like to marry Fawn.

Chapter 15: The prospect of Fawn's marrying Dag ignites an uproar. The twins, in particular, are vehemently opposed. In the course of an argument, the glass bowl that Fawn brought her mother from Glassforge gets broken. Dag mends the bowl with groundwork and discovers his "ghost hand."

Chapter 16: Nattie tells Fawn and Dag about the Lakewalker who had helped her years ago. She brings up the question of Lakewalker marriage cords, and insists that they try to add them to the marriage ceremony so that Fawn's status as Dag's wife would be recognized by Lakewalkers too. Then she asks Dag to "lend" her sight, by matching grounds, so that she might see Fawn's face.

Chapter 17: Dag and the Bluefields go to the village clerk to register their wedding and all the official agreements; Reed is spotted hanging around with Sunny Sawman. Then Nattie, Fawn, and Dag make the wedding cords. Fawn comes up with an ingenious solution for keeping her own ground in her cord.

Chapter 18: Sunny Sawman and the twins have hatched a plot to get rid of Dag -- they mean to lure him into the woods and threaten to thrash him if he doesn't ride away and abandon Fawn. Thanks to groundsense, Dag is not fooled, and he manages to ensure that Sunny and his henchmen have a very close encounter with a nest of angry wasps. The twins have a very close encounter with their father.

Chapter 19: Fawn and Dag are married, at the Bluefields' farm, with several families of cousins in attendance. The string-binding works. After a wedding supper, they set off north -- to the Lakewalker camp at Hickory Lake, where not even Dag knows what sort of reception they will find.

It sounds like at least a few people are interested in continuing with the series, so let's forge ahead! I was thinking that we could do the discussion for Legacy, the second book in the series, in two parts: next week we could read through the end of chapter 9, and then discuss 10-19 the following week. (I think Ch 10 goes better with the second half of the book.) But if anyone thinks that's going to be too fast -- or too slow -- then please yelp in the comments. :)

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Past discussion posts:

• Beguilement, ch 1-3 | ch 4-11

Comments

[shimotsuki.livejournal.com]

A couple of thoughts.

First, the Age Thing. In Ch 14, we find out that Dag is not roughly twice Fawn's age, as Fawn has been guessing, but is in fact three times as old as she is.

I feel like this ought to bother me. But it really doesn't. Only I'm not entirely sure why not.

Partly, I think, it's because we see again and again that Lakewalkers look young for their age and, barring accidents, live a very long time. So that certainly mitigates the size of age difference.

I suppose another reason is that these two do seem to make each other so very happy. That's a good thing.

The age difference does tie into some of the points that gilpin25 was raising last time, about how people (Petti Horsetail and Mari, then; now Nattie, too) keep warning Dag about the inadvisability of this relationship, keep warning him not to hurt Fawn, whereas no one seems to be saying similar things to Fawn. It might be because of age -- I suppose if you're already thinking of Fawn as "too young," it's Dag you'd go and talk to. (It might also be because of gender, of course.)

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Second, the structure of Beguilement.

Several of the reviews of the Sharing Knife series that I read before starting the first book talked about how the series is really one big story from start to finish. (I would agree, for what it's worth, although I also think that books 2 and 3 do a better job of feeling like they've come to an end.) In any case, I have to say that Beguilement, read on its own, feels off-balance. There's all the action at the beginning, and then much of the rest of the book is about people getting to know each other -- and then it ends. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed the chapters in Glassforge and West Blue, but it does feel like an oddly planned story arc.

Fortunately for me, I had book 2 sitting by when I finished the first one! :)

[gilpin25.livejournal.com]

I'll start with the Age Thing as well, as I probably spent more time thinking about it than anything else as I neared the end.

I feel like this ought to bother me. But it really doesn't. Only I'm not entirely sure why not.

Almost exactly my thoughts. (Though much fun to be had reading the reviews on Goodreads and counting the number of Disgusting! comments.) A lot of it's down to the writing and what you mentioned about the Lakewalkers living long lives: the many warnings about the relationship asking for trouble are because of them facing acceptance as a couple, and the age gap seems only a side issue to all. Including me, apparently. Dag and Fawn certainly never have an 'OMG, what an age difference!' moment while mulling over their feelings.

It was fairly obvious Fawn was hiding something early on, given the way she kept emphasising 'twenty' every time the subject came up, but it did make my eyes widen a little when her father spilt the beans on her being only eighteen. Having created an unconventional romantic gap in the first case, I felt as if Lois was almost momentarily teasing us by now making Fawn a teenager - so cope with that one, all you readers! - and following it up quickly by Dag proposing so that it is all but forgotten in the aftermath.

The age gap still didn't bother me, but the fact that Fawn had fibbed (for perfectly understandable reasons), and that both of them are amused by it and then move on, did a little. I'm still not entirely sure why - it perhaps niggled me that a little more could have been made of it. Though equally it was nice that they could both laugh at it and dismiss it. You see, I don't know what I wanted there!

Re the structure, I'm agreeing with you again. The pace of the book falls away after the opening action; I felt as if she'd come to realize that there were two books (or even four) to be told here, and Beguilement seems to meander to a rather quiet stop. With the benefit of being two-thirds of the way through the second, I don't know if it was ever intended to work as a stand alone book? I've certainly got a lot more out of it on my second read by not trying to make it into one.

I enjoyed the ending, quiet or not. All of Fawn's family are brought vividly to life, whether they had only a few lines or not, which made it easy to see what her childhood had been like and how she was frustrated and overlooked at almost every turn. There was tremendous satisfaction in seeing 'armless' Dag sort out a few people, use his magic to fix bowls and his intelligence to fix a few other things, and I loved the horsey bits. Thick and surly Copperhead may be my favourite character of all. ;)

[katyhasclogs.livejournal.com]

'armless' Dag

*snort* I think you have your revenge for my comment last week.

use his magic to fix bowls

I feel like a tremendous traitor for this, but a tiny voice in the back of my head peeped "Mary Sue" at that point.

[gilpin25.livejournal.com]

I feel like a tremendous traitor for this, but a tiny voice in the back of my head peeped "Mary Sue" at that point.

LOL. I remember having a few 'Dag Sue' thoughts when he was armless, climbing trees and dropping the wasp nest, telling Copperhead to be killer!horse, AND also managing to direct the remaining wasps away from him.

On the plus side, he is always completely knackered and a bit of a mess after these moments? ;P

[shimotsuki.livejournal.com]

I can't say this without spoilers, but I'll try to be oblique about it, lol. Imagine if there hadn't been the glass bowl, and the first time we found out about the 'ghost hand' was, um, the second time it appears. As in, the very first part of Book 2.

Better? ;P

(Also, I'm not sure if the bowl scene is Mary-Sue-ish, or just an example of something that Lakewalker makers, shh can do and farmers can't?)

[katyhasclogs.livejournal.com]

Imagine if there hadn't been the glass bowl, and the first time we found out about the 'ghost hand' was, um, the second time it appears. As in, the very first part of Book 2.

*snort* Point, Spark (as Dag would say).

just an example of something that Lakewalker makers, shh can do and farmers can't?

That's totally how I see it now, but at the time I have to admit to a slight eyebrow raise.

[shimotsuki.livejournal.com]

I was so glad to see you post today, because I did this as a "scheduled post," and so I had just about decided that something had gone wrong and this must not have shown up on anyone's friends page! Heh.

(Though much fun to be had reading the reviews on Goodreads and counting the number of Disgusting! comments.)

! I can imagine...

The age gap still didn't bother me, but the fact that Fawn had fibbed (for perfectly understandable reasons), and that both of them are amused by it and then move on, did a little.

Agreed. It makes sense that Fawn would have made herself out to be older than she was at first, setting off for her new life with her child. But it might have been a good thing for her to come clean with Dag once things were getting serious there. On the other hand, as a plot device, finding out that Fawn was younger than we/Dag thought did help mitigate her shock at learning his age -- I liked that shared-laugh moment, too.

I felt as if she'd come to realize that there were two books (or even four) to be told here

My copy of Beguilement actually says on it, "First part of a two-part series," or somesuch. So maybe only the first two books were planned at first? But in some ways, it seems that Beguilement and Legacy should have been in the same volume.

I loved the West Blue scenes, too -- I just think they might have made more sense as the middle of a book, rather than an ending. ;)

[gilpin25.livejournal.com]

I was so glad to see you post today, because I did this as a "scheduled post,"

I wish I'd said Hi! now, along with Be back soon! As I did see it when it first went up (I was writing, and it was going okay, and...you know), but as I've previously been last to comment thought there would be something of a rush. Perhaps everyone was letting me go first. ;)

Funny thing, though, is that I have missed a post of yours, so will shortly see you elsewhere!

! I can imagine...

To be fair, the reviews seem fairly evenly split between those who loved it, those who disliked it with a passion (and seemed to not get past either the age gap, sex scene or lack of action), and then there is a smaller group who felt it was very different to her other books but enjoyed it. So all bases covered there. LOL.

[katyhasclogs.livejournal.com]

I'm going to be super boring and agree a lot with the other two comments!

The age difference bothers me less than I'd expect too. After my initial (out loud - good thing I was at home) exclamation of "Fifty-five? Bloody hell!" I found myself just accepting it.

I think shimotsuki's right that it's partly because we can already see how very happy they make each other, and that 'for a lakewalker' Dag's not that old. But I wonder if it's also because there doesn't seem to be an uneven power relationship between them, which I think is what could make a big age gap seem dodgy. There's a comment that I've just read in book four about Dag wanting people to understand that Fawn's his partner, not his pet, and I think you get that sense even at this point.

(Although I also have thinky thoughts - here and here - about how, for someone brought up in a matriarchal society, Dag has a strangely paternalistic attitude. And that sort of contradicts my point there. Huh.)

Like gilpin25 I was more bothered by Fawn being 2 years younger than I thought than by Dag being 15ish years older. But I think that's mostly because I'm applying my own, personal, 'this world' experiences - at 18 I was a schoolgirl, but by 20 I'd been at university a year, lived away from home in a new city and done a ton of growing up in the process. In Fawn's world people may well grow up earlier.


I'd agree also that this half of the book (and a great deal of book 2 as well) ambles rather. This didn't bother me (and I read it at a gallop) but I think it's what gives the impression of the books being less polished than the first two Chalion ones. In CoC there's nothing extraneous and the plot seems perfectly constructed to create and release tension at all the right points. With these books, there are some long lulls and while I was never bored it does make the narrative seem less tight.

That said I think it was great to see Fawn's family and how she so obviously needs a life that's much wider than what West Blue can offer. Her brothers are clearly an absolute pain, but Whit was instantly my preferred sibling because he seemed more immature than malicious (I can't get my head round him being older than Fawn - he doesn't act like it). Naturally, I loved Aunt Nattie.

Finally, I have to share this Dag POV quote from chapter 12 for its sheer 'aww' factor:

"He could not, could not run up and down the streets of Glassforge, leaping and shouting to the blue sky and the entire population, She says I make her eyes happy!"

[shimotsuki.livejournal.com]

But I wonder if it's also because there doesn't seem to be an uneven power relationship between them, which I think is what could make a big age gap seem dodgy.

That's an excellent point. Dag has seen more of the world, but Fawn has people-skills and capabilities that Dag doesn't, and he certainly seems to deal with her as an equal, if one sometimes lacking in information.

With these books, there are some long lulls and while I was never bored it does make the narrative seem less tight.

Right. On the other hand, if the author's goal is actually to explore people and societies, it works quite well for that.

Whit was instantly my preferred sibling

Me too! He won me over when he started finding Dag funny. Which means he cottoned onto things faster than Saun did, hee.