TSK discussion | Horizon, ch 12-end

[shimotsuki]

Here we are -- the last discussion post! Thanks to everybody who's been reading along and joining in the discussions. It's been fun to read this while having people to talk to. :)

Summary

• Chapter 12: Finch invites Fawn and Dag to travel north on the Tripoint Trace with his party of homesteaders heading for Oleana. Barr turns up, without Remo but with Arkady; Arkady may be bluffing about traveling north, but Dag is not, so they all set off together. Finch's friends in the party are Ash, Sage and his wife Calla, and Calla's brother Indigo; these last two turn out to be farmer/Lakewalker half-bloods. Calla in particular is none too friendly.
  
  
• Chapter 13: Dag works out that Calla has tried to plant a persuasion on Sage, which he surmises was an attempt at a love spell. He clears it out; nothing much happens. But Calla continues unfriendly toward Fawn, and that night, she seeks Dag out and begs him not to interfere. He lets her know that he's already released Sage from the persuasion -- and that the persuasion is not, in the end, why Sage married her. Then he suggests that she take advantage of Arkady's presence on the trail to learn more about groundwork. Luckily, Arkady is amenable (or even intrigued).
  
  
• Chapter 14: Dag gets the walnut ground-shield working for Fawn. After crossing the Barrens, the party makes camp in a lush valley that turns out to be full of rattlesnakes. The Lakewalkers drive them all into the river. The next day, the party is overtaken by two Lakewalkers, and one of them turns out to be Dag's niece, Sumac. Who has been getting pressure from her family, and Fairbolt Crow, to marry. And in whom Arkady is apparently interested.
  
  
• Chapter 15: The party comes to the ferry crossing at the Hardboil River and finds Berry, Whit, Hawthorn, Bo, and Hod. Who, naturally, join up. Whit has been collecting spent horses, planning to feed them up and sell them at a profit (of course). He has also acquired a crossbow. The party comes to their first mountain pass, and discovers the Basswoods, a poor family trying to climb the mountain without enough mules (and with a very unfriendly attitude toward Lakewalkers). They decide to travel together and pool their animals for getting the wagons over the passes still to come. And then, who should come riding up but Remo, Neeta, and Tavia. They have succeeded in persuading New Moon to take in Dag and Fawn, after all.
  
  
• Chapter 16: Neeta and Tavia -- and Remo -- set about trying to convince Dag and Arkady to go back to New Moon. Barr is adamant about going onwards to the north. Sumac does a little convincing of Arkady, who decides to keep heading north with her (oh, right, and with Dag. ;) ) The three young patrollers decide to ride on with the party at least for a while, because Remo is undecided. Dag does another walnut for Whit, and then Arkady tries one for Berry. Neeta tries a little seduction on Dag, possibly following Sumac's example; needless to say, it is less than successful. And then the party runs into a mud-man.
  
  
• Chapter 17: Dag kills the mud-man, and Fawn manages to calm down the Basswoods. Sumac and Barr go scouting for the malice, and there's a scare when Sumac's horse comes back riderless, but soon Sumac and Barr ride in on Barr's horse and report that the malice is coming south along the Trace toward them, but moving slowly. Dag organizes a patrol, including Whit with his walnut and his crossbow.
  
  
• Chapter 18: After some stealth and some fighting, the little patrol manages to dispatch the malice -- Rase gets to use his knife and count his first malice kill. Everyone agrees that it was odd for a malice, especially one as close to a molt as that one was, to be out on the road. (Cue ominous music.) They come to a valley that is recovering from a forest fire, including a burned-out farmstead with human bones down in the well. And then they discover: giant mud-bats. (There's another malice!) Dag and Sumac tangle with a few, but then dozens more appear. The party makes a run for the cover of the trees, but some of the mud-bats manage to grab Owlet, Dag (after he'd beaten the thing off Fawn), and Tavia. One picks Barr up as well, but drops him, breaking his leg badly. Dag drops his primed knife down to Fawn.
  
  
• Chapter 19: Dag pops some mud-bat arteries and gets himself and Owlet on the ground as the mud-bats are trying to clear the ridge of mountains. Tavia turns up as well. Dag's ankle is in bad shape, but they limp along. Back in the valley, Arkady sets Barr's leg, and then the rest of the party decides to stash Arkady, Barr, and Rase (still recovering from his own malice kill) in a safe cave and strike out for Laurel Gap, the nearest Lakewalker camp.
  
  
• Chapter 20: Dag and Tavia find a patroller from Laurel Gap, Pakko, who's been dropped by a mud-bat and has broken his back. Dag and Owlet settle in to stay with him, while Tavia heads back down to try to find Arkady and the rest of the party. Meanwhile, Sumac (and Fawn) try to get everyone else on the move to Laurel Gap. More mud-bats appear -- and the malice, itself in the form of a huge and rather elegant bat. Of the farmers, only Fawn, Whit, and Berry with their walnuts escape being mind-slaved; these three take refuge in a cave, since rock stops groundsense. Fawn hits on the idea of fletching the primed knife so that Whit can fire it from his crossbow.
  
  
• Chapter 21: Fawn, Whit, and Berry come upon their mind-slaved companions, and some others, at a campsite along the Trace. They wait until dawn, and the malice arrives. There's a tense moment while it's too high up for Whit to shoot, and Finch starts explaining to the other captured farmers about getting the walnuts off. But Fawn leaps out and starts yelling at the malice, and it swoops down. Whit lands his shot. But then Fawn wonders if she is being ground-ripped... Meanwhile, Dag wakes up and feels that something is off in his marriage cord, but soon he finds a mindless mud-bat, so at least he and Pakko know that the malice has been dealt with. Tavia and Arkady, with Calla and Indigo in tow, soon arrive, to start healing Pakko and to report that the party has broken up, with the walnutless farmers captured, Sumac and Remo still trying to make Laurel Gap, and Fawn, Whit, and Berry missing. Dag manages to locate Copperhead, so he takes Owlet and heads back down the mountain. He finds the camp, astonishes the Basswoods -- and learns that Fawn has been taken for dead, and buried, even though his cord attests that she's actually still alive.
  
  
• Chapter 22: Dag's single-minded panic about digging Fawn out earns him nothing but a calming blow on the head with a shovel, so he resorts to subterfuge, asking to just see Fawn's "body" one last time. While he waits, he sees to Berry and Whit, whose ground-shields have partly closed up their ground after their encounter with the malice. Something similar has obviously happened to Fawn -- and if her walnut's fading groundwork had given out while she was buried, it would not have been good. The farmers and muleteers finally manage to dig her up, and Dag gets rid of the walnut. Whew. Except then people start assuming he can raise the dead...It takes some explaining.
  
  
• Chapter 23: Neeta arrives, with patrollers from Laurel Gap, off to find Pakko. Word spreads about the shielded farmers taking down the malice, and a Laurel Gap medicine maker wants to know all about the ground shields. Sumac and Remo return as well, with Pakko's son. Dag convenes a bit of a tribunal, and confirms what he'd suspected -- Neeta saw Fawn laid out for burying, and knew that she wasn't dead, but rode on in silence (and there hadn't been any other Lakewalkers around to double-check). In the end, Dag warns Neeta to go home and not show herself in the north again. Tavia decides to ride home with Neeta for now, but to come up to Hickory Lake (after Rase!) in the fall. Remo chooses north, as well. The party begins to break up, as different folks turn off in their different directions. And then Fawn and Dag, Berry and Whit, Bo and Hawthorn and Hod, and Arkady and Sumac arrive at Berry's place in Clearcreek. They find a big old comfortable farmhouse with lots of room -- and a pond, for plunkins.
  
  
• Epilogue: Barr turns up at the farmhouse at Clearcreek. Dag and Arkady are making medicine, Sumac is minding the horses (and expecting), and Fawn is busy with all kinds of things including little Nattie-Mari. We learn that Barr's persuasion of the farmer girl at Pearl Riffle has left him with a half-blood daughter whose mother doesn't want him in her life. Barr is surprisingly subdued, and, having met Calla and Indigo (and after a little prodding from Fawn), decides he will keep an eye on his little girl as she grows up, just in case. The chapter ends with talk about what work they're all doing, and their plans for spring.

All comments welcome -- for the whole series. How did it work? Lingering thoughts or questions?

---

Past discussion posts:

• Beguilement, ch 1-3 | ch 4-11 | ch 12-19
  
• Legacy, ch 1-9 | ch 10-19
  
• Passage, ch 1-12 | ch 13-24
  
• Horizon, ch 1-11

Comments

[shimotsuki.livejournal.com]

After I posted the chapter summaries, I was going to come back "soon" and post some comments, lol. Well, better late than never! And I guess I did have a few thoughts, heh. [In fact, it looks like I'm going to have to break this up into two comments!]

Comments about this part of Horizon:

• I'm a bit puzzled about why no more was ever said about Dag's having planted a persuasion on that poor town clerk, especially after Barr (quite justifiably!) confronted Dag so vehemently. I suppose it might be intended as part of the build-up to the walnut ground-shields; all the more reason for farmers to want (or need) such a thing.
  
  
• An example of world-building that I think is very cool is the nicknames. Along the Tripoint Trace, there's a throwaway line to the effect that Tril Bluefield was named for trillium. And there was a glass-wagon driver named Mape in Passage; that just has to be short for "Maple," even though the full name is never used. This kind of detail, non-essential, but there for readers to notice if they're interested, helps make the world of the books feel fleshed out.
  
  
• That last point reminds me: Sumac is the only Lakewalker we meet who's named after a plant or animal, isn't she? (Like a farmer...) I wonder how that happened.
  
  
• I can't help but picture Calla and Indigo as Goths. Especially with those names. ;)
  
  
• One way in which I liked Passage better than Horizon was that the number of fellow-travelers was smaller, so we had a chance to get to know most of them. I felt like the "patrol" in Horizon just kept growing, so that it was hard to keep track of everyone. I was particularly sorry that we didn't see more of Calla, for example -- she's an interesting character. And I'm not really sure what we gained from the inclusion of the Basswoods, except maybe a chance to show some more overtly anti-Lakewalker farmers starting to rethink their assumptions. I mean, the Owlet subplot was cute, but I think I'd rather have had more of Sage and Calla and Indigo.
  
  
• When I posted my Berry/Whit ficlet, it sparked a few comments about how with all the instantaneous hookups in the series, Berry and Whit's few months together on the Fetch before deciding to get married made their pace practically glacial. ;) I guess that's a point, as Dag would say. I like Arkady/Sumac well enough, and the characters do seem suited, but boy they were quick about it, especially given their respective histories.
  
  
• I really liked the buildup to the confrontation with the bat malice. First, there's the lesser malice, which has the dual advantage of making the more powerful one a big surprise (classic horror-movie trick?), and getting rid of Rase's primed knife. Then there's the way so many details from throughout the series come together, like Whit's interest in archery followed by his progression to the crossbow, and Fawn's skill in fletching arrows.
  
  
• I'm still not sure I get the way Dag's primed knife is supposed to fit into the story here, though. It's definitely an ominous and dramatic monent when the mud-bat carries him off, he drops his primed knife to Fawn, and she thinks to herself that he's still got his bonded knife with him. But not even Dag really gives it much thought after that. The bonded-knife plot thread overall felt to me like too much build-up -- given all of Fawn's hostile thoughts toward it -- and not enough payoff. (Not that I'm sorry Dag didn't share, of course!)
  
  
• "Nattie-Mari"? No! Ick! (Makes me think of "Renesmee," and I didn't even read that book...) But Dag holding his "Sparkle" is adorable, and I like to see Fawn still an active part of the farmer/Lakewalker rapprochement project (cooking up medicines, for example) even with a new little one.

[philomytha.livejournal.com]

This is reminding me of all my half-written Sharing Knife fics! Because a lot of the same things struck me. The way the thread about Dag planting persuasions in farmers when convenient just gets left hanging bothered me - I kind of wanted to see him try it again sometime and get dragged back into line by Arkady or another Lakewalker, or see it come up in some other way in the plot. I suppose there is the bit at the end where he considers trying to persuade people to dig Fawn up and ends up just begging them instead, but it never really connected up, in my mind.

And how they're going to make their new place in the world, in the long run - that's another thing I was always a bit uncertain of. Dag and Fawn seem pretty sorted, but I want to know more about the joint Lakewalker-Farmer patrols, and whether Sumac starts one in Clearcreek with Whit as her first recruit, and whether she and Arkady stay permamently or only for a few years. And what Sumac does generally, since I really don't see running a stud farm for Whit as anything other than something to pass the time while she's pregnant and can't patrol. And whether Barr ultimately comes back to join them instead of staying in a camp. He strikes me as someone who might do better that way.

It did not occur to me that Mape was short for Maple, but obviously it is! Thanks for the insight :-). And Nattie-Mari is a terrible, terrible name.

I rather liked the Basswoods as new characters, and found them easier to hold in my head than Ash, Sage and Indigo, who I tend to mix up. But it does get a bit crowded by the end.

I liked the way Dag sits out the entire last battle altogether. Admittedly the only way to make him do it was to break his ankle, give him a toddler and also a man with a broken back to care for all at once, but still. Another LotR echo there - it's the little people who kill the final malice, not the big people.

[katyhasclogs.livejournal.com]

The way the thread about Dag planting persuasions in farmers when convenient just gets left hanging bothered me

Yes, although I felt like it was sort of dealt with, just in a round about way. What I mean is, that for me that incident was tied up with the issue of Lakewalkers inevitably having a certain amount of power over Farmers because of the increased knowledge and control groundsense gives them. In that way I see it as linked to Dag's refusal to judge which bandits were beguiled, and Barr's misdemeanors, and even to an extent the way that Cumbia knows exactly how to push Fawn's buttons in their argument. And I think the shield-nuts go quite a long way to solving the problem of this power imbalance, because they shield Farmers from Lakewalkers as well as Malices, so there's something of a solution the the persuasion thing there.

But I agree that it's still rather unresolved in that they start having a conversation about it that just... never gets finished.

[katyhasclogs.livejournal.com]

I can't help but picture Calla and Indigo as Goths. Especially with those names. ;)

I love that idea! :D

One way in which I liked Passage better than Horizon was that the number of fellow-travelers was smaller, so we had a chance to get to know most of them

I agree that this is a huge contrast between the two books and like you I prefer the way it works in passage. I'm not entirely sure, looking back, what work these characters were doing in terms of storytelling. Unless maybe to show that making links between Farmers and Lakewalkers is possible, and that Dag's getting better at it? I dunno.

But your comment about Owlet has reminded me that one of my favourite things in the book was that the main things he learned about from his time with Lakewalkers were plunkin and swearing!

all the instantaneous hookups in the series

I kind of just accepted these when I was reading, and I guess I just read it as a trope like those in Shakespearean comedies when Everyone Gets Married At The End. But Arkady and Sumac were one couple I'd have loved to know more about - they each seem so interesting in themselves, and all the hints we get about the development of their relationship are really tantalising. There's one particularly frustrating one where Sumac mentions her and Arkady having things in common, but when Dag pushes for details she just says "I don't think I'll tell you". Argh, how can Lois be such a tease? I want to know!

[shimotsuki.livejournal.com]

Comments about the series as a whole:

• I agree with comments I've read to the effect that this series works best when viewed as one long story. I think the last two books are stronger than the first two as stories, but there's lots of buildup in the first two books that's important for what comes later.
  
  
• I also really like the sense that Fawn and Dag, plus assorted others like Whit and the Clearcreeks, Barr and Remo, and Arkady and Sumac, all understand the other side's culture and values more and more as the story goes on. There's definitely a sense toward the end that the two societies may begin find better ways to work together, even if it won't be perfect and it takes a long time.
  
  
• Why do we never find out about Dag's camp credit, or what's happened with Cumbia? Arrgh, frustrating. But, true to life, I suppose. And I'm still hoping for fanfic involving some of the folks from Hickory Lake post-series. ;)

[ETA: And I just realized that I haven't even said anything about Dag nearly losing Fawn, or Neeta's actions and the 'trial', or Barr's Lily and the shock it's given him. But I've wittered on long enough! There really is a lot of food for thought in this part of Horizon.]

[gilpin25.livejournal.com]

I agree with comments I've read to the effect that this series works best when viewed as one long story. I think the last two books are stronger than the first two as stories, but there's lots of buildup in the first two books that's important for what comes later.

When I first read them, I was looking on the series as a slow burner, in that it wasn't until I got to the last two that I was reading them at ridiculous times o'clock and quite unwilling to put them down. The first two rather flowed over me - it was only on the reread that I realized how much I'd overlooked and thought of as descriptive filler.

Mostly what I think I didn't quite appreciate was what a different type of SF heroine Fawn is from the outset, being distracted by concentrating on the unconventional romance (and I do think the great strength of the books, apart from LMB's gift for making me care for characters and their worlds, is that it is such a captivating love story. And still very much one when they were married). Fawn's every bit a farmer's daughter and yet her weapon is her wits, which are being stifled by her family. She bends rules or finds new ways to do things and is the catalyst for so much change; it's no wonder Dag, stifled and despondent in a totally different way, desperately needs her to keep him 'grounded'. It's refreshing not to have a kick-ass, magically gifted heroine, as seems the norm in fantasy novels, though little Fawn does kick a few backsides in other ways!

[gilpin25.livejournal.com]

In some ways this was my favourite book, but I felt it suffered from everything getting wrapped up rather too quickly at the end, and the climax not quite matching up to the excellent, nerve-tingling build up beforehand. There were also those loose ends that you've both mentioned and a few too many characters floating around.

It probably didn't help that I'm claustrophobic, but Fawn's (and her baby's) near fate and Dag's thwarted attempts to save her were fairly agonising to read. I wasn't too fond of farmers myself at that point (but then how sad is it when they want Dag to raise their relatives from the dead?). Fawn's clearly made of sterner stuff than I am, but one night's reaction to it all seemed a bit brief. As for Neeta, her earlier skin-crawling seduction attempt with Dag made her actions even more horrific; on first read through, the trial and her subsequent 'banishment' seemed faintly unsatisfactory but I changed my mind later on. So many people know what she must have done.

I like Arkady/Sumac well enough, and the characters do seem suited, but boy they were quick about it, especially given their respective histories.

I've moaned about the quick hook-ups but had no complaints about this one (it must have been an interesting 'conversation' in the woods!). Obviously they were attracted to each other from the first hello (except Arkady didn't go in for anything as crude as talking), which was made very clear, but I also liked was the rather practical side to it all. Sumac seemed to decide that, having thoroughly enjoyed playing the field, now was the time to settle down, here was the man she wanted and so why on earth mess around? It sounded like Arkady's first wife was another forceful personality, and that he was lonely and ready to fall hard. I can almost hear the fanfic trumpets sounding. ;)

It was also fun seeing their very direct romantic approach through Dag's eyes, contrasting with that of Berry and Whit slowly and nervously inching their way along, as seen earlier through Fawn's. Dag seemed to spend most of his time just trying to keep tabs on his niece!

I'll be back to say more, having started this late at night, but 'Mape' completely passed me by as well! Nattie-Mari is the most awful name; that child will wonder what on earth possessed them when she's older, lol.

ETA: For annoying and probably very confusing typo!

[katyhasclogs.livejournal.com]

Fawn's (and her baby's) near fate and Dag's thwarted attempts to save her were fairly agonising to read.

I agree - it was like one of those awful dreams where there's something really important you need to do and everyone is intent on stopping you. Except poor Dag couldn't just wake up and feel relieved it wasn't real. :(

Nattie-Mari is the most awful name; that child will wonder what on earth possessed them when she's older, lol.

You'd have thought someone named Fawn would know better!

[gilpin25.livejournal.com]

Spooky moment: I'm looking at this post again and thinking I was supposed to be coming back here - and up you popped on my screen!

You'd have thought someone named Fawn would know better!

Quite! I've come to the conclusion that I'm not that good with epilogues: if it wasn't for Barr getting his time-to-accept-responsibility Serious Life Lesson, after reading about everyone being married off, being pregnant, and doing terribly well, I was getting close to shouting, "It's not all okay! What about Remus and Tonks Cumbia and Dar?" While I'm a sucker for happy endings, they never quite tell me what I want to know. ;)

[katyhasclogs.livejournal.com]

Spooky indeed! Clearly this is the place to be on a Wednesday evening. ;)

"It's not all okay! What about Remus and Tonks Cumbia and Dar?"

I definitely wanted more Cumbia and Dar! I want to know what makes them such miserable gits tick, dammit.

Plus, I'm allergic to book/fic characters being named after other characters. Nothing makes my toes curl harder.

P.S. If you make it through my rambling and incoherent Marxist analysis down the page, you probably deserve a medal...

[gilpin25.livejournal.com]

I definitely wanted more Cumbia and Dar! I want to know what makes them such miserable gits tick, dammit.

I was almost hoping Fawn was going to report there had been no defrosting whatsoever, just to give some balance to all the seemingly positive stuff going on. But we're probably meant to infer that anyway. The trouble is, those miserable gits were far too interesting!

P.S. If you make it through my rambling and incoherent Marxist analysis down the page, you probably deserve a medal...

LOL, I haven't quite got there yet but I'll look forward to it!

Haven't forgotten SCD; I have scribbled notes on such things as the prettiest dress, Darcey's 'yah's', and how much I could have won if I'd taken the 66/1 about Lisa topping the table.

[katyhasclogs.livejournal.com]

OMG the batmalice/mudbats are horrific. I wasn't scared of bats before I read this book, but I think I might be now!

I rather liked the comment, when Fawn was making the sharing crossbow bolt, that if it all went wrong then, well... it was only Crane. A nice bit of using earlier storylines there, to create a situation where experimenting seems a bit more accpetable. :D

I kind of agree with other people that there were so many characters on the trail with them by the end that I rather felt like I didn't get to know any of them. Finch, Ash, Sage and Indigo became pretty much Interchangable Blokes in my head, and only Calla really developed a personality/storyline of her own. Interestingly, this is less true of the Lakewalker additions, who I had slightly more of a handle on.

The epilogue is fairly cheesy, but I love it. :) Except for that poor child being saddled with a name like Nattie-Mari, which is not as bad as Renesmee but probably worse than Albus Severus. I'm actually finding it painful to use it in fic, but as it is canon there's not much I can do!

Of course, the epilogue does have its serious side, and I like the way it made me think about the consequences of Barr's earlier behaviour and the way he seems to have grown up somewhat as a character.

I've run out of lunch-hour, so I'll be back later to discuss Overarching Whole Series Stuff.

[katyhasclogs.livejournal.com]

I'm going to start this comment on the series as a whole with a (possibly) controversial statement:

This series is about the ultimate triumph of capitalism.

Now, before you all shout "Seriously, Katy? What planet are you on?", I should state that I'm not entirely sure I agree with my own comment here - it's just one, in some ways extreme, way of reading things - but it was a thought that occurred to me at the end of my first read-through.

I think it comes from the repeated instances of Lakewalkers learning to make a profit from their skills (through the marketing of the nut-shields, the market at New Moon Cutoff, Dag and Arkady and their healing business) in the way that Farmers do. For me this increasing emphasis on trade and profit contrasts with what we see of Lakewalker culture at Hickory lake, where society and resources seem very much communal, especially as the different cultural ideas regarding property are so frequently emphasised in the early books.*

So I guess what I'm reading here is that, with Lakewalker society becoming more trade-driven by the end of the series, the capitalist way of doing things seems to have won out. Which I don't have a problem with, as such, except that by the end of the series I was also left feeling somewhat that in the posited solutions for Lakewalker/Farmer integration, Lakewalker culture was being diluted rather.

I mean, I very much understood and found interesting the argument that if the two societies didn't adapt and start interacting with each other, then the expanding Farmer populations would simply overwhelm the Lakewalkers - to everyone's detriment, malice-wise. And I think that the suggestion that trade is one way of Lakewalkers successfully interacting with Farmers is a very sensible one. And in general I loved the way the books chart a slow, quiet, one-step-at-a-time revolution that will never quite be finished, and two societies beginning to get to know each other.(So here's another them maybe: multiculturalism.)

But I also felt like a lot of it was Lakewalkers learning to be more like farmers, particularly with regard to life at New Moon Cutoff and also, I'm afraid to say, Dag and Fawn's relationship and the set-up at Clear Creek. It seems to me that from about halfway through Passage Fawn's constantly yearning to buy a cast-iron range and settle down somewhere, and at the end of Horizon, she's more or less got that wish. And while those wishes make total sense for Fawn, given that it's what she's been brought up to know and expect, I can't help wondering how much it's ultimately going to suit Dag, who's lived most of his life in a culture that's nomadic and communal (and by all accounts has never been good at sticking in one place). The compromising seems like it might be a bit one sided...

As for New Moon, I think I commented a bit on this in the previous post, but they seem to have lost some of the elements that make Lakewalkers particularly Lakewalker. The biggest of this I think is that they no longer migrate with the seasons, but there seem to be a lot of other little ways too.

Absent gods this has turned into a ridiculously long comment. I guess one big question I'm left with at the end of the series is: what does increased interaction with Farmers mean for Lakewalker culture? What will be lost?



* I think this is why I've been so surprised at a) the outrage so many readers feel about the suspension of Dag's camp credit and b) that people have wondered what happened with it in the end. I'd read possessions as not being terribly important to Lakewalkers (or even understood in the same way that we would), and so had assumed that it was not in general considered a harsh penalty (merely a pragmatic, if slightly petty in this case, legal precedent) or viewed by Dag as a particularly big deal.

[katyhasclogs.livejournal.com]

I'm replying to my own comment here, because while I was writing I thought of a totally different way of looking at the issue, and a bunch of counter-arguments. (Is it too weird and Gollum-like to disagree with yourself? It happens to me a lot.)

The big thing that occurred to me was that New Moon Cutoff might not be an example of a more integrated Farmer/Lakewalker society in the way that Dag'n'Fawn are trying to promote, but an example of what happens when Lakewalkers become overwhelmed by Farmers: they are wealthier, but migration stops, patrols become less disciplined and there's a constant population leakage as Lakewalkers leave camp.

Clear Creek meanwhile could be seen as a nice compromise - not nomadic, but quite possible fairly communal, and you could make an argument about boat-people and nomadic-ness. Plus, with Farmers being taken on by patrols, things are to an extent being learnt by both societies, and population might well be flowing both ways (unless the patroller-Farmers commute?).

Also, I may well be viewing Lakewalker culture a bit romantically in terms of the trade issue - I mean, there's evidence in the first book that a certain amount of trade already goes on...

Things to resolve in fic maybe? ;)