TSK discussion | Legacy, ch 1-9

[shimotsuki]

Welcome to the special Lakewalker edition of our TSK discussion group! I am posting from a small lake at roughly the latitude of Dag's Hickory Lake, and the water is indeed a bit murky, but the sixteen (!) of us gathered here in two tents lake houses do not yet smell green. Possibly because we have a shower that is fed by the city water system. I have not yet been out in a narrow boat, though I plan to if the wind dies down a little, but there has been lots of swimming and floating. On the other hand, no plunkin, (un?)fortunately, has graced our dinner table...

Summary

• Chapter 1: The story picks up exactly where Beguilement leaves off, reinforcing the idea that these two books are really more like one long book. Fawn and Dag are riding away from West Blue on their wedding day. They camp, and find that Dag's broken arm has made the wedding night more complicated, but the "ghost hand" that Dag used to fix the glass bowl usefully re-emerges. There are conversations that give us more clues about Lakewalker family and camp structure. Fawn and Dag reach Hickory Lake only to find that Mari's patrol has made it back first.
  
  
• Chapter 2: Dag and Fawn enter Hickory Lake camp, so for the first time we see Lakewalkers in their home (well, summer) territory. They meet up with Fairbolt Crow, the patroller company captain, who is not in the least thrilled about Dag's marriage to Fawn, and seems to expect bad fallout from the camp in general. But Fairbolt is also impressed by Fawn's backbone and good questions, and seems to give them the benefit of the doubt.
  
  
• Chapter 3: Dag continues to face the music -- this time, it's his family. His brother's wife, Omba, is distant but not overtly hostile. But then they find the brother, Dar the knifemaker, at the bone shack, and hostile becomes the operative word.
  
  
• Chapter 4: More gantlet. Fawn, Dag, and Dar head together to Tent Redwing, where Dag's mother Cumbia is incensed and says quite nasty things about Fawn. In the heat of her argument, she says that Dag is not welcome in her tent unless he gets rid of Fawn. Dag takes her at her word, and whisks Fawn off to spend a rainy night in the bone shack. They talk, about Dag's family, and about the origins of Lakewalkers and malices. And, inevitably, about plunkins.
  
  
• Chapter 5: Dag and Fawn find a place to set up Tent Bluefield, at a campsite shared by Mari, her husband Cattagus, and other relations (including Utau and Razi and their wife Sarri). Fawn starts trying to settle in, but bumps up against having so little to work with and not knowing how things are done. Meanwhile, Dag goes to the medicine tent to get a ground reinforcement for his broken arm, and talks to Hoharie, the medicine maker, about his ghost hand.
  
  
• Chapter 6: Dag takes Fawn to Stores, where he collects various things he is due, for sending down to West Blue as bride gifts and for outfitting their tent. Among other treasures -- and some mud-wolf hides -- Dag shows Fawn an alligator skin, and tells her about seeing the sea. A few days pass; Dag's splint comes off, and he starts to teach Fawn how to swim, while she starts to cook and spin and knit, and try to make a home. Dag takes Fawn to see the water lilies that were his "something beautiful but useless".
  
  
• Chapter 7: Dar appears, to tell Dag that he is making Tent Redwing a spectacle, and Dar and Cumbia aren't standing for it, so they're going to go before the camp council and demand a string-cutting or a banishment. Dag goes to talk to Fairbolt, and learns that if Dar doesn't go up before the council, others likely will. The camp seems concerned with not letting Dag get away with something that others have been prevented from doing in the past, and with setting an example so youngsters don't start taking up with farmers.
  
  
• Chapter 8: In the face of the threat from the camp council, Dag decides it's time for Tent Bluefield to be more visible around the camp, so they help with plunkin distribution for a few days. Fawn, always looking for things to do, starts learning from Cattagus how to make and fletch arrows. But then in the middle of a weapons-practice session comes bad news: a bad malice outbreak in the Raintree hinterland, Saun's home. Fairbolt wants Dag to serve as company captain...which he hasn't done since Wolf Ridge. Fairbolt makes a persuasive case -- which includes leaking the information that Dag is about to be called up in front of the camp council, within days.
  
  
• Chapter 9: Fawn helps Dag prepare to leave for Raintree. She asks him if there's anything he can do to let her feel his ground through her wedding cord, and he comes up with something...interesting. Morning comes all too soon. Fawn sees Dag off, and then hurries to a spot where she can see the patrollers ride by as they leave camp. To her surprise, she spots Cumbia there as well. The chapter concludes with Dag choosing patrollers who he knows can keep their grounds locked down, and planning a dangerous ambush on the powerful malice, which will, he hopes, be distracted by the fighting already going on in Raintree. He realizes that now, for the first time since Kauneo, he wholeheartedly wants to survive and have a future -- and he wonders if that will affect his success as a patroller.

Next Monday (or Monday-ish, as I might be on the road on Monday), I'll put up a post for the second half of Legacy, chapters 10-19.

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Past discussion posts:

• Beguilement, ch 1-3 | ch 4-11 | ch 12-19

Comments

[katyhasclogs.livejournal.com]

16? Enough for a patrol there. ;)

Your holiday sounds lovely! I'll be back later for a proper discussion.

[shimotsuki.livejournal.com]

16? Enough for a patrol there. ;)

You're so right! I hadn't noticed. ;)

Last night I accidentally unearthed a small knot of Bujold fans among the holidaymakers here (friends of my guy's from college, plus some assorted significant others), but none of them have have read TSK. Which is a shame, since the terrain around here is so spot on for Hickory Lake, and I want someone to squee with...

[philomytha.livejournal.com]

Ooh, I like the sound of your lake holiday!

This was my least favourite section, when I first read the books, probably because of the relentless way Fawn gets blindsided and knocked back by her experiences at the camp. Dag really doesn't give her any idea what to expect at all - and while Dag also went into West Blue with very little idea of what it would be like, that section feels very different, perhaps because a farmhouse is not such an unfamiliar location for the reader even if Dag has never slept inside one before (though later in the series there's a lot more about Lakewalkers' discomfort around farmers). But I remember being as startled as Fawn to discover that she had a tiny tent and no domestic conveniences at all in her new home. It definitely doesn't feel like a couple settling down in their new home, it's a couple discovering that this home isn't going to work out for them, and I guess that's what makes it uncomfortable to read.

[shimotsuki.livejournal.com]

I normally holiday at those more northern or eastern lakes Dag mentions, where the plunkins won't root because the ground is rocky, lol. But this lake is nice too (if a little murky). And when the party consists of old college friends (of my guy's) who got to know each other through a science fiction and fantasy club long ago, the company is a lot of fun as well! [Case in point: Last night at dinner it was discovered that two people in the group are independently rereading Komarr on this trip, and there was a spirited argument about whether or not Ivan is actually smarter than he seems. (No one here has read the ARC of the new book yet; speculation about that was the reason for the argument.) I've never seen so many Bujold fans in one place off the internet before.]

It definitely doesn't feel like a couple settling down in their new home, it's a couple discovering that this home isn't going to work out for them, and I guess that's what makes it uncomfortable to read.

I think you've put your finger right on what I found difficult about this section of the book as well, but wasn't able to articulate. Although I'm enjoying it much more now that it's a reread, so I can see where the pieces fit into the larger series.

[shimotsuki.livejournal.com]

I didn't like this part of the book the first time I read it -- not because I had issues with the writing, or the plottng, or the characters, but because I didn't like what was happening! As philomytha says, it was hard seeing things looking like they really weren't going to work out for Fawn trying to fit in and start her new life. (For what it's worth, though, now that I'm on a reread, I really enjoyed going through this section again and seeing how the pieces were being set up for the larger story.)

I thought Dag's interactions with his mother and brother were interesting -- if awful. Clearly he's had a hard time with them, and has evolved certain defenses, but one wonders if both sides aren't just making things worse. I liked the way Fawn noticed this, and realized that Dag might be inclined to react badly to his family and make unfortunate decisions just as much as she knows she herself might do. And this all made me really feel for Dag, who's obviously had a tense relationship with his mother and brother for decades. His inclination to volunteer for extra patroller duty makes complete sense.

Another moment I appreciated was where Dag is talking with Dar and faces the age gap head-on, acknowledging that it means he must be careful not to take advantage of Fawn of betray her trust. Although he follows this up with the remark that this is true in one's dealings with anyone, really. Although I think his instincts are good; in situations where the gap in experience (which is not necessarily equivalent to age) is significant, the need to be careful is greater.

It's very interesting to get a glimpse of Lakewalker society, and the way they handle and organize their day-to-day lives. Given how hard they have to work to sustain the patrols, it does make you think how nice it would be if the farmers were a little more supportive...

And now, this particular farmer is off to have a swim in the nice, warm, slightly green lake. :)

[katyhasclogs.livejournal.com]

So, plunkin. Fawn says they're nicer than parsnips, but I refuse to believe that any vegetable could be nicer than a parsnip. ;) They're a cool world-building creation all the same. Out of interest, how does everyone else picture them? I think I see them as some sort of freshwater sweet potato...

I've just been flicking back through the wedding night, and it strikes me that it's so much more than just a sex scene. There's a ton of character building there, what with Fawn yakking constantly and wondering and problem solving, and Dag's internal monologue and a whole sort of collaborative air that is so very them. And the ghost hand bit moves the plot forward. And all in all the scene is super-cute.

That said, on first reading I had a slight 'Huh, so much for all that supposed sexual liberalness - they go 'all the way' for the first time on their wedding night' moment. Which is really unfair of me, because there's very valid plot-based reasons for that. And it's a lovely scene.

Anyway. I loved all the insights into Lakewalker life that we get once we arrive at the lake, and even after two readings I've barely scratched the surface of the things to notice. I have to say, the simplicity and non-obsession with stuff rather appeal to me - not sure Fawn would agree though, and I guess she's the one who has to live it.

I really enjoyed meeting all the new people too. I liked Fairbolt and Omba very much. Cumbia and Dar... less so. I'd have loved to hear so much more about these last two though - we get tantalising glimpses of their (complex) personalities and I'd really love to know more about what makes them what they are.

Finally, WRT the Raintree mission - I suspect Fairbolt has been waiting for years to make Dag a company captain, and here's a situation where he can't refuse.

ETA: Forgot to add that in Beguilement I had a very idealised view of Lakewalker societal mores. Here I was quickly disabused of several of those notions. (And actually, I quite like the complexity that added.)

[shimotsuki.livejournal.com]

Out of interest, how does everyone else picture them? I think I see them as some sort of freshwater sweet potato...

Since they're sort of head-sized, and dark green, I pictured them as looking sort of like a (biggish) kabocha pumpkin:



...and I love the idea that there are no seeds or pith or anything, so they aren't hard to prepare!

I've just been flicking back through the wedding night, and it strikes me that it's so much more than just a sex scene.

Oh, I totally meant to post about the wedding-night scene and forgot. I completely agree -- it's a fantastic scene, and there's a lot of characterization going on. It's just right for the characters, too; Fawn totally would be asking tons of questions and trying to figure everything out, and Dag would be worried that he couldn't make it as nice for her as he otherwise would thanks to the broken arm (even though he is somewhat, er, distracted, lol). It's also refreshing to see characters having to figure out the logistics, rather than magically knowing how to make everything cinematically perfect the very first time. ;)

we get tantalising glimpses of their (complex) personalities and I'd really love to know more about what makes them what they are

Seconded! Cumbia, especially; there are hints that Dar eggs her on, so it would be interesting to see how she would react if left to her own devices. Frankly, I'm with Fawn in thinking that Dag gave up too soon, that first evening with the rainstorm. Dag knows her better, of course, but his view of her is not exactly unbiased, either.

[philomytha.livejournal.com]

That said, on first reading I had a slight 'Huh, so much for all that supposed sexual liberalness - they go 'all the way' for the first time on their wedding night' moment. Which is really unfair of me, because there's very valid plot-based reasons for that. And it's a lovely scene.

I noticed that too. On the other hand, they both consider themselves to have had quite a lot of sex together previously, so perhaps it's just us and our hidebound notions of what counts and what doesn't ;-)

As for plunkins - well, I don't think parsnips are anything special raw (though there are no vegetables better that a roasted buttered parsnip!) so plunkins evidently have that going for them.

[gilpin25.livejournal.com]

So LMB has done the one thing many claim sounds the death knell of a good number of interesting relationships: she's gone and married them and there are still 3 books to go! Except I didn't really have any doubts about her keeping the relationship wheels constantly turning, just eagerness to find out how she'd go about it. But it's another way she's turned the usual romantic 'rules' on their head.

It's hard reading Fawn facing little blow after little blow, and watching them all pile up, and I was already thinking that Dag was resigned to this not working. But she certainly wasn't, and not to his reserve about so many other things, either. I did love the glimpses of Lakewalker society, the lack of privacy/hygene, lol surprises along the way, and the many new characters we meet in a short space of time. They're all memorable.

Like katyhasclogs I wanted more Cumbia, and far more about her and Dag's father, and had to resist inwardly chanting Mummy's boy at Dar at one infuriating point. It's interesting how Dag leaves Cumbia to it so quickly, as though there is no point even trying.

My favourite part is that last section of chapter nine, when Dag realizes how much he wants to live and come back to Fawn now. It made me think of R/T, of course. Oh, and when Dar has the age gap conversation with him; Dag has such a good, considered answer to it.

One of the best things about the books to me was that there isn't a clearly defined climax waiting for our heroes but an ongoing fight. Fawn shows her mettle when she suddenly sees Dag the much needed patroller and not the can't-believe-I-got-so-lucky husband, and still sends him on his way. And she's not got anyone she can even call a friend there. The honeymoon period is definitely over. :(

Your lake trip sounds lovely. Have you talked anyone into reading these yet?!