"Ask The Readers" (lol)

[shimotsuki]

LJ seems to be working now. ...Mostly. So I thought I'd stretch it a little and post a poll, heh.

Seriously, there's something that's been a sticking point for me in working out Kaleidoscope (my Remus/Tonks fic series), and that is how to incorporate Tonks's "tea and sympathy" scene with Molly at the Burrow. The Tonks in my head isn't the type to mope or pine just because she can't have the man she wants, so I think there's more than that going on (frustration, anger, worry). But then for this reason, I feel like the beginning of HBP is too early in the timeline for Tonks to have given up on her chances with Remus -- not to mention that there need to be that "million times" when they argue.

So I've written a piece for day_by_drabble where I try to flesh out what is going on with Tonks in that scene from HBP, and I would love some feedback on whether it works for (a) canon Tonks and (b) Kaleidoscope Tonks (if you've been reading the series).

The drabble: Invitation (326 words | PG, mild profanity)

[Poll #1765853]
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Comments

[hrymfaxe.livejournal.com]

I need an option that is more positive of your take on this. ♥

Just because we see Tonks only being sad and moping around, doesn't mean that she isn't also very angry. ;)

[shimotsuki.livejournal.com]

Aww! But, glad you think this interpretation works. I definitely think she needs to be angry!

[hrymfaxe.livejournal.com]

I have to admit that it has been quite a while since I've read the books, but I do remember that I didn't really recognise the Tonks we had seen earlier in the person that Harry saw in OotP... So I like it better when she also feels like throwing mushy vegetables at Remus. ;)

ETA: so long I can't even remember what book it happened in, lol!

[shimotsuki.livejournal.com]

LOL -- I was just reading another author's note where someone got OotP and HBP confused. It's been a while!

[merryb87.livejournal.com]

It really is the most frustrating thing about Tonks I think. In OoTP we see this a take action, take no bullshit kind of girl. Then in HBP we see her completely defeated, depressed and all because of Remus?

Personally I always thought that more had to be playing into her emotions, other than the fact that Remus is rejecting her. Fear, anger and sadness about the war and the deaths, the fact that she is overworked and perhaps under appreciated.

I think you have a great start, as to why she was feeling what she was feeling. Go with what you think, what you wanted to have happen and how you think it could fit into Tonks' character and the canon.

You won't be able to please everyone, but if you write it so it's believable and your heart is it, then it will come off.

I hope I was helpful, and I can't wait until to see the finished project!

[shimotsuki.livejournal.com]

Then in HBP we see her completely defeated, depressed and all because of Remus?

Exactly -- my reading of canon is that it doesn't have to be all because of Remus. And I agree with you that to make Tonks make sense, given what she was like in OotP, it really can't be all because of Remus.

I don't even think that what Tonks is reacting to is Remus's rejection of her, plain and simple. I'd say Tonks has too much self-respect for that. I think it's because Tonks knows that Remus is rejecting her even though he actually loves her, and needs her very badly -- this is why she doesn't give up or cut her losses.

Anyway, glad you thought this looks like it will work! I'm pretty confident my stories make Tonks fit into canon later in HBP, but I was glad to get some feedback on the way I'm handling her at this earlier timepoint. (And I may not write up this particular chapter for a while, but it influences some things I'm doing in some WIP chapters at the moment...)

[merryb87.livejournal.com]

I think it's because Tonks knows that Remus is rejecting her even though he actually loves her, and needs her very badly -- this is why she doesn't give up or cut her losses.

I have always thought that, he must have had feelings, strong ones for her, thus why she never gave up on him and why it seemed everyone, including McGonagall, was telling him to stop being such a git about it.

Because really, if he didn't love her, wouldn't they be telling her to cut her loses? And I would like to think that he would, you know, tell her instead of leading her on and giving some hope, that would be terrible.

The one thing that bothers me, is her lack of morphing abilities in HBP, that it was implied that she "lost" them because of Remus. I refuse to think that, I like to think that she was choosing not too, in order to appear more mature, and that it was Remus that convinced her, that everyone would be more cheery, and have hope if she stayed true to herself.

As for anger, yes I think she was angry, but more at Dumbledore than Remus, I can see her making frequent trips to the man and just yelling at him, for doing what he was doing to Remus, for NOTHING. Which is what I think you captured well in your drabble, this off putting of Dumbledore.

Err sorry for the rant... lol.

[shimotsuki.livejournal.com]

Ranting is welcome here! (hee)

The one thing that bothers me, is her lack of morphing abilities in HBP, that it was implied that she "lost" them because of Remus. I refuse to think that

I totally agree. In this ficverse, I want the lack of morphing to be also due to her grief over Sirius, and then later her worry over Remus's safety, plus the continual drain of working for the Order along with her job, and all those dementors.

But I've got her angry at Remus, too, for being so stubborn!

[gilpin25.livejournal.com]

I'm with hrymfaxe: you need another poll choice that says 'Yes!' :D

As for canon Tonks, JKR kept it apparently simple - Tonks looks down and mousey, Molly's worried, Hermione has a valid but something of a red herring theory why - so even Harry would notice and we would as readers in turn think, ooh, mystery! But I think there are plenty of hints that this was far from a simple case of girl losing boy and girl is upset.

I've always interpreted the tea and sympathy line as Molly having heard Tonks out with her fears regarding the mission facing Remus, and the frustration of their personal situation with his "We can't be together but I look and sound really miserable throughout HBP as well" stance (oddly, he doesn't get the stick for this that Tonks does!). I certainly think she doesn't want to look at Dumbledore because she's angry.

Order members are dying now, not simply having near misses like Arthur, and Fudge makes a point of saying how low morale is at the Ministry after the death of Amelia Bones while the Aurors are out each day trying to run down Voldie and his followers. No wonder Tonks looks "drawn" when Harry sees her here with all this going on - she'd be a fool not to. So, yes, I'm all in favour of your Tonks having and showing complex emotions at this point; it's something I believe she must have.

[shimotsuki.livejournal.com]

But I think there are plenty of hints that this was far from a simple case of girl losing boy and girl is upset.

Exactly. I just don't think Harry is that perceptive, bless his heart ;) -- which is of course useful in making him a not-always-reliable narrator! So it makes sense that there is more going on than he imagines.

Thanks for your thoughts. They're definitely going in same the direction mine are, so that makes me feel like I'm not going too far out on any limbs! I think my problem is that it would be easier for my fic storyline if Tonks were a little more irritated and a little less sad this early in HBP, lol, but if this little drabble works then this is a perspective I can take on the problem.

I still have to write Tonks's first real confrontation with Remus, which is kind of what this is building up to. Not the time she kisses him, when his reaction just leaves her confused and in shock, but the argument they'll have on the next day. Tricky to make it work and fit with both canon and the later parts of Kaleidoscope! (Hope I haven't painted myself into a corner by writing out of sequence, heh.)

[gilpin25.livejournal.com]

Also meant to say that it was such fun to see appear this on the f-list. It took me right back to 2005/6, HBP time, and all those discussions about R/T. I can remember having a very heated argument about this very scene over at the Mugglenet forums!

I'm not going too far out on any limbs! I think my problem is that it would be easier for my fic storyline if Tonks were a little more irritated and a little less sad this early in HBP, lol,

You've got to go for it as it sounds so interesting - I love different takes on the pivotal momements in their relationship that make me think (and are obviously making the writer think in this case, lol). Are you still writing the wedding fic?

[shimotsuki.livejournal.com]

It took me right back to 2005/6, HBP time, and all those discussions about R/T.

I've been delighted by all the discussion that this has sparked! Especially since I wasn't in online fandom when all this was going on the first time.

(I think at heart what we have here is poor consistency of characterization by JKR. But it's kind of fun to try to make it work...)

Are you still writing the wedding fic?

Was up too late working on it last night, actually, and am strongly considering spending tomorrow's air-travel time on it instead of, say, work. ;)

It's fun to be back in an R/T mood -- I've missed them being inside my head!

[gilpin25.livejournal.com]

...and am strongly considering spending tomorrow's air-travel time on it instead of, say, work. ;)

A fanfic flight sounds much better on the ear (and mind?) than a work one. ;)

[shimotsuki.livejournal.com]

You are a terrible influence on me.

:D

[gilpin25.livejournal.com]

Well, it's ages since I've been to a good wedding! LOL.

[sspring92.livejournal.com]

OOH, an in depth R/T analysis! I love it!

I have been thinking about this way too much since I first read your post!

I agree that there had to be more than abject depression over her love life causing all her issues in HBP. I'm sure the war, basically being a double agent, working constantly and having the man you love bail on her was all too much.

It must have been infuriating for her as well to have Remus decide what was best for her, for them, with out really taking her feelings into account. Especially when she knew that he really did love her, and that all this was completely unnecessary. She had no way to comfort him and she needed comforting too. It would make her feel helpless.

I think that, as fic has taught us, Tonks' romantic history would probably be filled with men who wanted her to be someone else for them. I'm sure it would also not be easy to be a young woman in a man's job. Remus is someone who didn't judge her wild hair or clumsiness, respected her job and didn't look at her with suspicion as some in her colleges in both the Auror dept and maybe even the Order might, because of her heritage and abilities. I think Remus is probably the one person who she really did care what they thought of her (except maybe for Moody). When he didn't trust her enough to be able to handle their relationship, that would certainly knock her for a loop.

And on a side note, I have never liked the tendency for fic to turn her into an utter klutz! She knocked a plate off a wall and tripped on an umbrella stand in the book. But that tends to get taken to extremes sometimes. I really don't think she could have been an Auror if she couldn't walk through a room without falling down or pick up a plate without dropping it!

[shimotsuki.livejournal.com]

I love this, too! It's so much fun to read everybody's analysis.

It must have been infuriating for her as well to have Remus decide what was best for her, for them, with out really taking her feelings into account. Especially when she knew that he really did love her, and that all this was completely unnecessary. She had no way to comfort him and she needed comforting too. It would make her feel helpless.

Oh, yeah, I totally agree with this! Helpless and maybe angry or frustrated too. I bet Tonks really, really hates to feel helpless.

You raise lots of great points. I'm with you on the klutziness, too. Probably Tonks is slightly more clumsy than average, but that doesn't mean she can't walk across a room or function in her important and dangerous job, for example. !!

[mrstater.livejournal.com]

Yeah, you definitely need more poll options. ;)

I think your characterization is dead-on, and I'm sorry I haven't had a chance to review your drabble properly! There must be a lot at play for Tonks--and I think at this stage she'd still be vulnerable from her injuries at the DoM--and I think not really grasping the enormity of Remus' mission at this point--i.e., not seeing exactly the toll it will take on him or knowing the full danger at this point--would have her too angry to see him at that point (or afraid she'll make a scene in front of others). So your take totally makes sense to me without Tonks coming off as being all wibbly over a boy.

I liked what sspring92 said about Tonks resenting Remus making the decision for her. That'd be a hard pill to swallow for a girl who went into a largely non-girl profession! She probably feels at this point that if anybody neesd protection, it's Remus, and that Dumbledore is doing this all wrong sending him out into danger.

Excited to see where you go with this. :)