Fic planning: Liverpool or Sheffield?

[shimotsuki]

So I'm at the brainstorming stage for my fic for redandthewolf, and I was wondering if I could solicit opinions about a background detail. People were so helpful with my roast beef question last fall. ;)

It's spring of 1979. Remus has just been fired from his second job post-Hogwarts. He has consequently decided to give up his pleasant little flat in wizarding London and move to another city, so he can start fresh with the jobs problem and save money by renting a dreadfully slummy Muggle flat. (I've decided that the 1970s economic situation made the pounds/Galleons exchange rate advantageous to wizards.)

But, I'm torn between Liverpool and Sheffield as Remus's destination. I'm thinking of these two because both are large cities that were having a major economic downturn at the time and therefore would likely have had cheap nasty housing. Does anyone have any reasons why one or the other would be a better choice for poor Remus? At this point I'm leaning toward Liverpool because it was bigger, and there's always the music scene... Or, does anyone have a suggestion for an even better place for him to move to?
.

Comments

[godricgal.livejournal.com]

I've never been to Liverpool, but I really like Sheffield, and it's in Yorkshire - the people there are so friendly. The other thing is that if you had to write any locals, I'd say the regional phrasing would be easier to write in Sheffield.

[shimotsuki.livejournal.com]

I'd probably have trouble trying to write locals no matter what dialect they were using, heh. (Although I recently saw a presentation about the dropping/reduction of 'the' in Yorkshire dialects, so I know some of the factors behind that pattern, heh.)

I haven't yet decided exactly what kind of place I want Remus to be moving to -- totally glum, or shabby but with some bright spots. So it's nice to know that Sheffield has a reputation for being friendly, in case that's the way I want to go.

Thanks for the information!

[katyhasclogs.livejournal.com]

I would lean towards Sheffield too. I agree with godricgal that the accent would be easier to nail when writing, but also, to me, 1970's Sheffield conjures up a clearer (or rather, smokier) image in my mind. I think also with the Sheffield area, there may be more of a range of industries that are in trouble and, given its location in Yorkshire, possibly links with the miners' strikes, which is probably the first thing that leaps into people's minds when they think of The North at that time.

Having said that, almost any Northern industrial town would suit; Manchester, Newcastle, Bradford, Leeds or Glasgow could be other options.

There was a really good series on BBC 2 last year, Andrew Marr's A History of Modern Britain, which was a pollitical and cultural history of Britain sice 1945. The episodes relating to the seventies and eighties would probably be really useful to you, and in any case, it was an excellent series, so in the unlikely event that you ever have an opportunity to see it, go for it.

[shimotsuki.livejournal.com]

1970's Sheffield conjures up a clearer (or rather, smokier) image in my mind. I think also with the Sheffield area, there may be more of a range of industries that are in trouble and, given its location in Yorkshire, possibly links with the miners' strikes, which is probably the first thing that leaps into people's minds when they think of The North at that time.

Yep, those were the kinds of things I was thinking about when I was considering Sheffield -- industries shutting down and general unrest. But then Liverpool would be a bigger city, which might make for a more anonymous, isolated kind of feeling (especially since godricgal reports that people in Sheffield are nice!).

Having said that, almost any Northern industrial town would suit; Manchester, Newcastle, Bradford, Leeds or Glasgow could be other options.

I was thinking about Manchester and Leeds as other options -- but in the end, if there's no obvious reason to go with any one of these cities in particular, I'll just come up with a wizarding-related reason why Remus might choose one of them as a place to move.

Andrew Marr's A History of Modern Britain

Thanks for the suggestion -- that does sound interesting. It also sounds like the kind of thing that might be available on DVD at a video rental store, so I'll have to see what I can find!

[bratanimus.livejournal.com]

Ooo, Manchester would be fun, too. The dialect is great (says the dialect geek in me).

[joely-jo.livejournal.com]

Well, I was born in Sheffield, so obviously I'm biased... And it also had and has a HUGE music scene. More indie rock than anything else, but it is huge, and the Leadmill was a near-enough essential stop for most of the late 70s punk bands.

The city itself was very focused around mining and steel-making and the 70s Winter of Discontent hit the city badly. The Manor Estate is one of the most well-known rundown council estates in the city, and it has, of course, the very romantic ancient 'manor' at its heart. And of course, I'd be quite willing to help with geographical and dialectal/accent stuff if you'd like... just gimme a poke. :)

[shimotsuki.livejournal.com]

Well, I was born in Sheffield, so obviously I'm biased...
Good reason to be!

And it also had and has a HUGE music scene.
Very neat. Okay, I think I'm sold. I did know about the Winter of Discontent connection; that's one of the reasons I was looking into Sheffield.

The Manor Estate is one of the most well-known rundown council estates in the city, and it has, of course, the very romantic ancient 'manor' at its heart.
That sounds excellent and atmospheric. But I'm wondering if a whole council house, even in a rundown council estate, is a little too luxurious for someone who's just realized in a very visceral way that money is going to be an enormous problem for the rest of his life. Also, do you think someone could come out of the wizarding world and get a council house right away? My impression was that there are or were long waiting lists for those?

And of course, I'd be quite willing to help with geographical and dialectal/accent stuff if you'd like... just gimme a poke. :)
Thanks so much! For this particular fic it's more the fact that Remus is moving that's a plot point, along with the dreadfulness of his new flat, but I may follow this one up with more fics later, and may well ask you about things.

At the moment, what I most need to figure out is what kind of dump Remus is going to be living in. My original idea was a one-room flat in some kind of really awful building, the kind where the corridors reek and are decorated with broken light bulbs. Would you happen to know if there was a particular neighborhood/street/district where such places might have been found in the late 1970s? Or if you think pursuing the Manor Estate is simply more plausible for Sheffield at the time, I can try to work that out. (Maybe he can Confound someone on the council and move himself to the head of the queue. ;P)

[bratanimus.livejournal.com]

I have no business posting over here 'cause I'm a Yank; but even though the Beatles started in Liverpool, I'd vote for Sheffield, too, simply because I had a pen pal named Simon who lived there and he was very nice. He lived on a street called Button Hill, which sounded very romantic to my ten-year-old mind. LOL :)

Maybe you could ask someone to Brit pick for the regionalisms and local slang?

I'm very excited to read this fic!!! :D

[shimotsuki.livejournal.com]

I have no business posting over here 'cause I'm a Yank
You're forgiven. ;)

I'm very excited to read this fic!!! :D
Uh-oh! :P Don't get your hopes up...it's really only going to be another one of my dialogue-heavy 2000-worders, mostly James and Remus. (Of course, now that I have a plotbunny, I'll have to go make a final choice among all those excellent prompts...)

[bratanimus.livejournal.com]

it's really only going to be another one of my dialogue-heavy 2000-worders

"Only"?? Please. Your work is fantastic. "Only," my foot. ;)

(Of course, now that I have a plotbunny, I'll have to go make a final choice among all those excellent prompts...)

*cracks whip* :D

[shimotsuki.livejournal.com]

Aw, you're too nice...but if people are looking for lots of Sheffield atmosphere, there won't actually be much in this fic (maybe later?) -- it's just that I need to get the setting straight in my head so I know what I can refer to when I need a detail. (Erm, I also seem to have made a 2008 fic resolution to try harder to write plottier fics, but this fic won't be one of those either!)

*cracks whip* :D

Ow! ;) Also -- cool icon!

[bratanimus.livejournal.com]

if people are looking for lots of Sheffield atmosphere, there won't actually be much in this fic (maybe later?)

Oh, I see! I know what you mean about needing to know where your fic is set. It does help to set the tone, and a few descriptors of the surroundings can go a long way.

Ow! ;) Also -- cool icon!

The Jolly Roger? Thanks! I've been slowly looking around for some Pirates of the Caribbean icons, and this is one I snagged recently. I find it puts me in just the right mood to crack whips. :)